We Learn More By Crossing Lines Than Drawing Them

The fastest way to lose your mind right now is to assume everyone else is living in the same reality you are. We feel that pressure every day: pick a side, wear the label, stay in your lane, and treat the other lane like a threat.

We start with a problem we did not expect to care about so much: AI detectors. When a tool can confidently label human writing as “100% AI,” what happens to trust, authorship, and basic fairness? We talk Substack’s new AI checking, the way “evidence” can be as meaningless as highlighting your entire paragraph, and why this moment feels like earlier information revolutions where people could sense society shifting but could not name the cause. If you care about AI writing, plagiarism detection, education, or publishing, you will recognize the anxiety.

Then we pivot to a California road trip that becomes a lesson in perspective. Laguna Beach beauty, rules about smoking, weed smell everywhere, cosmetic surgery norms, $600 dinners, baseball parks with totally different vibes, Pismo Beach shark fears, Steinbeck in Salinas, San Francisco classics like Alcatraz and clam chowder, and a hot reality check in Sacramento. The point is not “California good” or “California bad.” It is noticing how quickly we judge and how quickly we normalize once we are immersed.

We close with what we keep relearning as friends from very different backgrounds: your zip code shapes your outrage, your compassion, and what you call “real.” If you want more conversations that lower the temperature without lowering convictions, subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave us a review.

©NoahHeldmanMusic

https://livingoncommonground.buzzsprout.com

https://www.jeffreystreszoff.com/

jeffrey.streszoff@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Does it feel like every part of your life is divided? Every scenario, every environment, your church, your school, your work, your friends, left, right, conservative, liberal, religious, secular. It seems you always have to take a side. This is a conversation between a progressive Christian and a conservative atheist who happen to be great friends. Welcome to Living on Common Ground. Do you think if we met today, we would still be friends? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

But we're friends now.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

A mom is known as a mom because they are living in a dog. Man, so well, we want a few games. Y'all fools think that's something? Man, that ain't nothing, y'all. And you know what else? We ain't nothing either. Yeah, we came together in camp. Cool. But then we're right back here, and the world tells us that they don't want us to be together. We fall apart like we ain't a damn bit of nothing, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

You're wrong. Alright.

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SPEAKER_02 1:16

So uh we're

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SPEAKER_02 1:18

back. It's been um a short, quick month, I think. I think Yeah, I think it's just

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been a month. I think the last

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SPEAKER_02 1:26

episode aired on June 11th, right? Something like that. And today is July something. July 23rd. And um it will come out this afternoon after I um do a little bit of audio work on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

All right, so uh because you've been traveling the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

I yeah, and so have you. And um, but all right, so the plan has been the plan was back in June. We would uh I had I had gone ahead and done an audio recording of all the different reflections from the beach that I wrote. And um, and so in June we did the s uh the rip current.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

And I do want to share one comment that um was left by a Karen A.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Someone left a comment.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Someone why are you shocked that people read my stuff?

SPEAKER_03 2:22

No, that's not what I meant. That's exactly what you meant. Wait, this was left on your Substack. Is that right? Oh, okay, that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Yeah, somebody that read it on Substack. That makes more sense. Okay. By the way, a lot of people were panicking. Uh, did you just see that Substack has now set up an AI where everything that it gets published or comments or anything like that, it goes through an AI. And so if it's a bot, like comment stuff, yeah, you can get booted out. Okay. But they're also making sure that people aren't just using AI to write their Substack material. Yeah, of course, sure. Right. And it was so funny how many people are getting nervous about that. And um, and I thought to myself, it's like the uh um the whimpering dog. It's only the whimpering dog uh that's been hit. Right. And so when Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. You know what I'm saying? And so, but out of curiosity, I I did look up the company that they're using, and then I took something that I had written with Gil.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

So Gil and I sat down and wrote it together. Uh-huh. And I copied and pasted it in, and it told me that it was 100% AI created.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Yeah. And I was like, stop trying to uh cheat.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

What? Well, it was interesting. Um, and I was like, that's that's ridiculous. And it's like, but then you can click a button that shows like evidence. Uh-huh. I was like, all right, evidence for why do you think that what that is is AI?

SPEAKER_04 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

And it just highlighted my entire paragraph that I submitted as evidence.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

That was the evidence.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Sure. And I was like, well, how?

SPEAKER_03 3:54

So anyway, then I was like, give a reason.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

No, it just highlighted everything. So then I thought, okay, well, let me take my I have one scheduled to post. I had one scheduled to post on Wednesday, right? This week, yesterday. And so I copied it and I dumped it in there. This is gonna cause wars. And I was like, I'm not saying that facetiously. Right. And I so I I copied it, I dumped it in there, and now I again I wrote it and I said, I checked it, and it came back and said 100% human.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

And I was like, what's the difference?

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yeah. Nobody knows. It's a black box. So it's the what's crazy about this, I love this, is you know, the I have heard a little bit about I'm way out of the uh uh the world of college students at this point, you know, but I've heard a little bit about the issues that some college students are having. So first the professors start having the issues, right? Because college students are writing their papers with AI. And then they so so what do the professors do? The professors start using AI AI software to filter everything through, which is then doing exactly what you're talking about and telling the professors that fully written by students' papers are just AI, and then the students are contesting this. And so it's like this back and forth, and then who can know? And it just makes me think about what it would have felt like to live in the you know early 17th century, or maybe late, call it late 16th century. Um, you know, where the printing press is just destroying uh your ability to know what's real and what's not. And you wouldn't know that. Nobody would know that that's what's happening.

SPEAKER_05 5:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Right. All you would know is, I don't know, France is invading the Vatican or whatever. Like that's you you just you just know that that uh your way of life is is changing. Yeah. Um and you wouldn't know that it's be that really it's because well what you would know is uh there's uh there are these people that are now kind of being called Protestants that are destroying your religion, right? Causing wars and whatever, yeah, or vice versa. You wouldn't know that really all of this is because the printing press. Right, you know?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Well, it it was it was interesting because like like I said, when I when I when people first started like yelping about AI, uh about this being checked for AI content, I was like, okay. Right. So what? That's good. Yeah, and then I ran my stuff through it and it was like, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

I was like, wait, and the funny thing was you were saying it when you went to the program directly.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

When I went to the program directly and I dumped some of my stuff that I had written on the book that I'm writing with Gil. Yeah. And the funny thing was the thing that I took and I copied and I put it in there is is some content that I'm rewriting right now because I was like, that's garbage. Like that's that's not real written. Like I I I myself read it and I was like, that's just not well written. Yeah, you didn't like it and you wanted it. Yeah, I have a tendency because I'm trying to I'm trying to capture a similar voice to Steinbeck as I'm writing this, right? Because Gil's life is a st is basically a Steinbeck character.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

And so I'm I'm intentionally trying to model, uh sort of use that same sort of if you read enough of it, you can catch kind of he does end up with a very familiar voice, whether he's writing um, you know, fiction or nonfiction. Anyway, so I'm trying to do that, and I realized that there are certain there are certain um literary techniques that he uses that I started using as a crutch. And so as I read it out loud, I was like, that's that's not just that it's not that well written.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

So anyway, I copied Is Gilmore Steinbeck or Hemingway? He's a he's a Steinbeck guy. He feels very Hemingway to me. Think about like the adventurism and you know Steinbeck guy. I guess so.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

So I mean, but think plus, I mean, he wrote a he he rode the his last rodeo ever was in Salinas. All right. That's fine. He lived in Monterey, gilded.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

He's from he he's, you know, anyway. He never joined a Spanish Civil War, so I guess he's not.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

He did not join a Spanish Civil War. No. Um and uh he probably did hunt in the UP, so he could be a Hemingway guy. Maybe he's a combo. Anyway, that's beside the point. It said that it was AI, and then I was like, oh, well, I I guess these people have a legitimate concern that things that they've worked hard on might get labeled as AI. That might be a problem. And then but then I was wondering, well, maybe it's the style, and maybe like it doesn't maybe that maybe what they're paying for, what uh Substack is paying for, is more nuanced than what you do online, like when you copy and paste and it was a free thing, like I didn't subscribe to anything like that. Yeah. But like um, the one that came out yesterday is a Bible study reflection, right? It's like i i it's on Genesis chapters uh one and two. And so the style that I was writing in isn't the same style when I was trying to emulate, copy, whatever Steinbeck. And so maybe that was the difference. I don't know. But whatever. It was it was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

No, I think it's a black box. Nobody actually knows how it works. And the other thing, too, is that it's not actually we use AI as a shortcut now. It's not actually the artificial intelligence that we're using. We're using the programs of artificial intelligence learning.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Yeah, that that blows my mind. So anyway, it did send me in a little bit of a uh depressed moment. Good, right? Because I thought to myself, I've worked out for over a year on trying to write Gil's book. Yeah. And I'm not done, right? I still have four more chapters, and then I'm looking back and there's a lot that I want to rewrite. Yeah. And um, and so it's probably gonna be end of this year, beginning of next year before I even get something that I think would be worth publishing or at least submitting to a publisher. And I thought if they run it through this same AI thing, there's a chance I could do all this work and it come back and say, yeah, it's AI.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Yeah. It there is. And who would you appeal to and how would you even prove it if the evidence is just your writing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

One of the things that came up is the use of dashes. Okay. I've been using dashes since 1998. Wait, what do you mean dashes? You know, there's a I mean I know what a dash is. But you know, like you'll write something and then you'll have like a little side thought. So you do a dash and then a dash.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Okay. Right. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

You do that? I do that. Anyway, apparently AI is known for doing that. Instead of using parentheses. Or instead of a parentheses, right? Like if I if I don't want to have a parenthetical, I might just use a because if you do a da like if you hit the if you hit the minus button twice real quick, it creates a long dash when you're typing.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

In um in pages. Okay. And so sometimes I'll just and then type my thought and then again and keep going.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

And I'll leave it like that. And so if you've ever like probably you've seen them in my handouts and stuff. Yeah, maybe. Um it I know you don't really read the handouts. So anyway. Usually um, yeah. But uh apparently that is an that's a signal that it's being used by AI.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, uh it's all guesses, right? It feels very much like SEO. You know what that is? No. Search engine optimization, okay, which was huge 10 years ago, right? And it was uh companies would like, you know, you'd pay a company for SEO uh for your for your website or whatever. And it they all had like a magic special sauce, right? They would say they could do this and that. And what you need to do is do this and make sure that these code words are in your website. And they probably sometimes they probably worked, but it all just felt like well, it it felt like magic. And I don't mean like, oh, it's magical and it's wonderful. I mean like it felt like um, you know, like a 17th century uh witch in the woods somewhere saying, like, I can make you pregnant. You just need to bring these, you know, things together and I'll mix up a concoction and get that birch wood and blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's like the it's like the uh um mole repellent that I was reading about today. It's witchcraft. The mole repellent. Yeah, it's witchcraft.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. I wouldn't spread it around your house then.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

It's all natural though, because witchcraft really just takes all natural things.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

And anyway, all right, so all natural is just code for doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Okay. Yeah, that's true. People that try to do like no, you just gotta take all natural deodorant. Or no, the all-natural weed killer in Tennessee.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Wait, I found out. Okay, go ahead. I bet I know what you're gonna say because I have a solution for it. Oh, it is all natural.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Because the all-natural weed, if you try to do an all like mix vinegar and Dawn dish soap or whatever, and try to do that and kill weeds, weeds are like, oh, that's cute. You're trying to make a salad?

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Like, what are you trying to do here? Okay, I can tell you what happens. I've been trying to do this. And you started mixing it with Roundup. No, okay. So we we don't use Roundup. We're tinfoil hat people in our house, and we hate um glyphosate and all of that kind of stuff. Okay. Yeah, because you're from California. Uh-huh. Um that's right. Um and uh so we don't so we don't use that. So I've been I've been trying to figure out how to get rid of the weeds because we have a bunch of rocks and stuff, so we have bad weed problems and whatever, you know. I end up having to pull them, um, which sucks. Weeds love this weather, by the way. Yeah, of course. Everything grows here. It's insane. Anyway. Except me, I wilt. Um uh so I did two things. One, when I finally got um fed up with it, I got a blowtorch. So that works.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

I've been seeing that on social media. That cracks me. Right. Yeah, but okay. I'm just picturing it's so it's so great. The mental image I have of you outside with a blowtorch going after weeds is priceless.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Uh-huh. Yeah. Um and uh, but I can justify it to my wife because, you know, I'm not putting chemicals in the ground. Right. You know, of course, if you did that in California, you've just set the entire state on fire. Yeah, I know. Um, yeah, and you're not gonna set anything on fire out here. No. Okay. Um, but all right, so the vinegar thing is just real quick, I've tried that so many times and it never works ever, right? And then I was talking to one of my friends about it, and we were talking about the blowtorch thing and whatever, you know. And I was like, I told him that. Yeah, I've tried that so many times, it doesn't work. And he was like, Oh, well, you have to get the Home Depot vinegar. And I was like, What are you talking about? And he was like, No, you have to get 30% or 50% vinegar. And I was like, Oh, I thought you just use like the white vinegar. The white vinegar you get, yeah. So we looked it up. White vinegar, cooking vinegar is 5% vinegar. The stuff that you're supposed to use, you cannot ingest. It will kill you. Really? Yeah. So you go to Home Depot, you get 30%. I've gotten 50% now. I accidentally got spilled a little bit of it on the garage floor, and it ate into the cement. Like it's that kind of caustic. Yeah. So you get that. And this is better for the environment. And yeah, because that I mean it Sure. Yeah, why not? It's still vinegar, it still goes away. But the problem with glyphosate. It's spelled R-O-U-N-D. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. No, it were it's this stuff works. Uh-huh. And it did burn those uh those weeds away. So anyway, if anyone wants to know, that's what you got to do. Put your vinegar at I'm I ordered.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

This is why people, this is why people tune in. Yeah, I know. It's for these helpful handy tips. It's on our podcast. We can do whatever you want. Yeah. Include including like just come out once a month. Yeah, that's right. Okay. So uh not that this isn't an engaging conversation. It is. Uh a couple things. One is I do want to read from Karen A the comment that she made about the uh the uh reflection called the Ripcrant.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I for she writes uh another great one, which means that she's read the other ones too. Oh, nice. And then after I know, right? And then after reading, I thought about how the directions for what to do are posted, seen by countless people, but not always read. And then she writes, our Bibles can be that way. I'm happy to have a lifeguard in whom I trust. Sometimes life happens and I have to let things sweep me out a certain degree so that I can swim parallel. And happily, there are those on the beach that look at more than themselves and share points not pondered by an average beachgoer. Thank you. So I was just glad that she commented.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

That's a really nice sentiment. I like all that. It was I it was great.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Yeah. I thought I thought that was great. And uh and I'm glad that she enjoyed the reflection.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

She uh equated the instructions to uh to the Bible, to the word of God.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah, I think a couple different things, right? To the Bible, yes. But also to friends who maybe just offer you a different perspective.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

The people on the beach.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Yeah. Yeah, which I think is good. So and that's the point of the reflections is you take away from it what you want. Um I'm I'm unless it's wrong. Well, um, you know, I'm not worried about that anymore. I'm not worried about trying to reflect or correct people anymore. Um as long as you're not being mean or hurtful to other people, do what you want. Well, that's you. That is me. And um I'm gonna judge them harshly. They're incorrect. Well, I may, I may internally, but as long as I just do it internally, that doesn't hurt anybody, right? Sure. Except my except maybe me. Okay, so what we were the original plan was we were gonna then talk this week. Uh we were gonna listen to me read the pre-recorded uh The Sand, which is the next reflection in the order that I had them. However, we have both been gone for a long time. And I made a just a little off-handed snarky comment about California a few moments ago. Yeah. But that's where I was at. Yeah. And that's where you're from.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

And so And you, I mean, let's talk about that. You drove all the way up into like you went through, you ended up in my actual hometown. Well, Sacramento's not my actual hometown, but close your area. Close enough, my area. And you drove through and hung out in an area that I'm very familiar with. Yeah, Pismo. So yeah, what what were your thoughts about California? How great is California?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Cal I love California. Um, if I could afford to live anywhere, like just like money was no option. Uh-huh. Right. I would live along the coast of California somewhere further south. Very, very unique perspective, right? No. The reason it's so expensive is because everyone feels that way. Right. Wait, like I love like San Diego.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

I was gonna say which part, San Diego or the City Coast.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Right? We stayed on Laguna Beach. Uh huh. Laguna Beach was awesome. Yeah. Like if I if I uh wasn't interested in seeing the rest of the state, I could have a very happy vacation just staying at Laguna Beach for two weeks. Yeah. Right. Um, so we flew into Long Beach and then uh rented a car and drove down to Laguna Beach. Uh-huh. And then we spent the next day just there. And um and when I first got to California and Laguna Beach in particular, uh I had a bit of a culture shock, right? It was like, oh my gosh. How so? And I judged people.

unknown 20:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Good in general. Good. Right. And who were you judging? Oh, the potheads? No, the potheads don't bother me. You know, um, there's probably a little bit of me that was jealous that it's still not legal in Tennessee. Yep. Um I I'm joking, wink wink. Anyway, um, but what was what was interesting to me is okay, first thing. So Saturday we get up, we go down to the beach, we get some chairs and stuff set up, whatever. My kids get a volleyball because they're open to get into the loop with the volleyball players and stuff because they love beach volleyball.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Wow. I have never done that. Well, I mean, think about it. I've been to the going to California beaches my entire life, and I have never tried to get involved in a volleyball game with strangers.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Robbie played volleyball um for the club team in the high school. Uh-huh. And Madison's been playing beach ball beach volleyball since she was in high school. And she started playing volleyball when she was in middle school. Okay. So, and she's 5'10, and he's just shy as 6'5.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

No, I got it. And he's 175 pounds. He is a beach volleyball player.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

Yeah. You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

And so, yeah, so that was their thing. And and I was just looking forward to just walking up and down the beach, yeah. Looking at the tide pools, um, going up on the, they've got that walkway where um it's paved. Okay. And you can go up and over, and there's this whole park and all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Um, it's kind of like Palisades Park over near um Santa Monica, but with less rats. Okay. So um, true story. And so, anyway, um, but it's beautiful, right? And so we got there, we walked around a little bit. Um, and I found a cigar shop.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And I was like, awesome. So I got myself a cigar. Perfect. And I lit it up, and we go walking back, and I realize I'm legally not allowed to be anywhere in California with a lit cigar.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Yeah, I was gonna say, did you stay in the shop or did you walk around? You're outside.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

I went outside with a litigant stick. I know. And I didn't realize that there's no place that you can legally smoke a cigar other than your own home. And even in your own phone. Even in your own home, don't be close enough to your neighbors. Uh-huh. Right. Um, and so I just walked around town, but I continued to move so that I was never uh, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

It is interesting how culture goes because um, you know, this is just uh the ebbs and flows of how like uh things strike people because um you can absolutely just be walking down the street smoking a joint. Yes. Nobody will care.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

I stopped and I watched the um I I was watching the uh basketball players right on the beach and everything like that. And the smell of weed it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

It's everywhere. Yeah. You know? Which again, I is that's fine. But my point just being like people would look at you with horror if you're standing there smoking a cigarette or smoking a cigar.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yeah. It was interesting. Interesting. There was this old black guy that looked over at me smoking the cigar. Yeah. And he kind of gave me this look like, that's right. Like you're like resist, like stick it to the man. That's right. Yeah, right. And I was like, I didn't realize that I was being that like countercultural. Right, yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. This guy was like, Yeah, brother. Yeah, right. That's great. So I thought that was great. And um, so I immediately broke the law and didn't realize that. And then and then I noticed a lot of um cosmetic surgery. Oh, sure. Well, you're in Southern California. And um but not even like some of it wasn't even well done. You know what I mean? Sure. And um I you just want to again, very judgy, but I was like, I do you really think you're fooling people? Um but that was me. It's interesting that me all of a sudden being like completely submerged in something that felt foreign to me.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

You know, that's all that was. A reaction.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

And that is a cultural thing because then nobody quote unquote thinks that they're fooling anyone. It's that they are none of their friends are without cosmetic surgery. They they've spent years. You've you've spent years where, you know, last 10, 12 years, everyone you know has gotten something done. You know, and and multiple things. And then continue and then continue.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Well, because like you're sitting with like the like, you know, we were at a restaurant and there's these two couples, and the guys are obviously in their 80s. Yeah. And the women are obviously not, they're obviously in their 80s too. Oh, sure. They're trying to not look like it. Oh, interesting. Right. One of the things I did learn on this trip is the dead giveaway is the hands. Well, there's no cosmetic surgery for hands on. I bet there is somewhere and you that's could you imagine how painful that would be? If it's good, I bet you just don't realize it. So anyway, that was just me being judgy. Um, because I've looked at places on myself where I thought that could you you could use a little tuck there. Anyway, um but I was in California.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

By the way, I think it's way more common than people realize.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah. I um which part the judgy part?

SPEAKER_03 25:41

No, the cosmetic surgery. Oh, like everywhere, even here, I think. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But I do know if you're gonna go to Southern California, it's like it's weird. Southern California's weird.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

I liked it. Like I said, if I could live anywhere, I would want to live in Laguna Beach. Yeah. If I could afford it, just like unfortunately, everybody else. We were in a house, 800 square feet, the verbo that we were in. Yeah. Walking, you know, you walk a block, you're on the beach. Beautiful. And um 800 square feet. Denise looked it up. If if we were to buy it, we would just need to come up with 1.4 million.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

That's interesting. I was thinking somewhere around three. So 1.4 would be well, your property is the house. Is the stamp, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

And a concrete slab for you to park your car on. Yeah. That's the entire Well, I mean 1.4.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

I'm not gonna ask you how much you spent to uh to rent it, but you can imagine like a pretty good return. I'm sure it's helping them. Yeah. Yeah. I look at that in Pismo. Yeah. I look at those those properties in Pismo and it's it's not nearly as much as as like LA, but um but it's pretty expensive also.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

So is Laguna Beach considered part of LA? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

It's one of the I mean I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

It took us an hour it took us about an hour and a half to get to the Dodger Stadium.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Yeah. From there. When people say Lord County. Most people, when people say LA, they mean all of the spread. Yeah. The whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Okay. So um, so we stayed there. Next day we got up, it was a Sunday, we drove into LA. Um, it was a day game, went to Dodger Stadium, liked the stadium for the um history of it. Uh-huh. Um, and to see the things because you know you've seen it on TV and all that kind of stuff, and even in movies, you see it. So that was kind of cool. Yeah. And then uh because it was a day game, it was over in time that we uh drove out to Santa Monica, went to Santa Monica Pier, walked down Venice Beach, um went up to Palisades Park. That was Venice Beach. It was nice. Did it seem clean? It seemed clean. It seemed like a lot of people are very healthy.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

A lot of people doing a lot of exercise and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Yeah, that's a that's a thing. Venice Beach is the um like the workout thing culture or whatever. But I I'm not super familiar with that area, actually. But from what I remember, Venice Beach had like a um uh like a bad homeless problem. And you know, so I just didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

The only place we didn't really see homeless people was Laguna. Yeah. Um we saw more homeless people though in San Diego.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Oh, interesting. Yeah. I wonder if that was a function of like where you were in San Diego.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

We almost saw a fight on Santa Monica Pier.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Yeah. It was a Christian booth. Oh, really? Yeah, about why you needed Jesus and somebody was like getting upset about that or something. No, I think they were friends, and it's because they he was arguing about I came out here for you, and Oh, it was just a personal dispute. Oh, yeah, and it was getting bad. And then the person who was actually in charge of the booth, uh-huh, like someone else ran off to find her, uh-huh. And like she comes running over as these two are about to just throw down at the Jesus booth.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

It was great. And um, so anyway, uh, but yeah, we did see rats in um the Palisades Park. I mean, yeah, sure. You know, I was like, big ones. Yeah. You know, and um Madison kind of freaked out about it. Uh-huh. I was like, well, at first I thought it was a squirrel, and then I was like, no.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Squirrel-sized rats. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

So anyway, um, we did that, and uh Robbie was really excited about seeing that and then was really disappointed.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Um really disappointed about what?

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Just the Santa Monica pier.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

Oh, okay. Yeah. It and it just wasn't as cool as we thought.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah. And then I I wrote a reflection about it, and it'll come out on here's a shameless plug. It'll come out on my substack next week. Yeah. And it'll pass the AI test. So anyway, we'll see. Yeah, it it should. Um, if not, I'd be shocked. Um, so anyway, uh so then the plan was we were gonna get up the next day and head into um Anaheim. Yeah. So we were like, do you guys want to go to Disneyland? What do you want to do? Yeah. But we were gonna go to a baseball game that night. Yeah. Go see the Angels. Angels. And the kids decided they just wanted to hang out at the beach for half the day. Okay. And then go in and eat at the game. Yeah. Which I was glad because the other cultural shock thing was we went out for dinner uh our first night there. Uh-huh. And we ate at the beach. Yeah. At the um Laguna Beach Hotel. Okay. Which you can't stay there. It's like it's so old you can't actually stay there anymore. I think they're renovating it. Interesting. But there's a restaurant in the main level, you can't go up. Um and um anyway. So we uh we each got a drink, uh-huh, had an appetizer, dinner, and a dessert.

SPEAKER_05 30:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

And uh with a tip, uh yeah, it was uh over six hundred dollars. Yeah. And I was like, wow, tomorrow, guys, it's pizza on the beach. Yeah. So anyway, but it was, I mean, it was fine. I did have this moment of if I eat like that every day, uh-huh. Are we gonna be able to be eating after two weeks? Like Robbie's gonna have to pay for his final year in college. Right? Yeah, and I was like, okay. Uh and it's so funny because the kids, I think, after a couple meals like that, became cognizant. Yeah. And so they were like, we could just, you know, and I was like, no, no, guys, you shouldn't have to worry about whether or not we can afford dinner. Just if we're gonna take you somewhere, get what you want.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

You know, don't start looking at prices on the that's don't worry about it. And so um but yeah, we did have pizza on the beach. Yeah, we did have pizza on the beach, and and it is interesting though that it saved you money to eat at the stadium. Yeah, you know what I mean? Typically that situation.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

And so anyway, so then Hey, can we pause real quick? Yeah, like pause the recording. Yeah. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

So the next day we were supposed to get up and head into um Anaheim. Yeah. But they wanted to spend the day at the beach, which is fine. We tried we considered Disneyland the OC. Yeah, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

And uh you ever watched that show? You were ten years too old. It was big because it was it was big. Well, I just mean it was I think it was early aughts, is when it was big, the OC. Yeah. Um, that reality TV show. Um that's what Spr Spencer Pratt was on. That's where he became famous. And who's Spen Spencer Pratt? Oh, he was running for LA mayor in this last race. And okay. Anyway, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Um but uh lucky I know who Marsha Blackburn is.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Yeah. Um uh what was I gonna say? Oh, anyway, it was just it was a big deal. It was a really big deal in the early aughts. Okay. But it's like the OC is like we were having our kids. It's like the San Diego of LA. It's you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

I like San Diego.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Yeah, it's very it yeah, no, it's great. It's just it's the like the um the more expensive, you know, area.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

So we just went to the game. Yeah. And it was it it was nice. Um, it felt like going to a baseball game at Disney. Oh, really? Like the people had on those barbershop quartet, you know, those hats. Really? Okay, uh-huh with the striped vests. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

And they were all like and smiley and happy, uh-huh, you know, and uh much more selling peanuts like it's 1938 or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, much more happy than they were at Dodger Stadium. Dodger Stadium was great, it felt like a party, but you'd be like, How do we get to and the guy would look at you like, are you a moron? Uh-huh. This is your first time here, and you're like, yeah. Yeah. You know. And uh so anyway, so it was good. And then um the next day we went into Hollywood and to Rodeo Drive, yeah, and Beverly Hills, and did uh Sunset Boulevard and went up to Mulholland Drive and did all that, right? And that was um a letdown.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Yeah. Um it's usually uh it's usually built up in people's minds a lot more than actually.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

I didn't realize that like people have more than one star in Hollywood. I thought, like, oh, here's your star. Yeah. And then just keep walking down a little bit, and oh, there's another one.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Yeah, there's that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

And um, and that was one where like you have to it was a lot of uh people experiencing homelessness. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. It's it's a rough area. Tourists, yeah. Right? That was it, and street performers.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

It's not it's not as fun as it seems like it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

There was even one guy who had like a Python.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Sure. And he was like, get your picture taken with my snake. Yeah. And you're like, no. Yeah. You know, and um, so anyway, but I did find a California flag t-shirt for $5.99. All right. And so I got it there. And that was my that was my souvenir for California. Nice. And um, so yeah, so we did that, and uh, and then the next day we were supposed to get up early and go down to San Diego and um for a night game. And my kids, can you guess what they wanted to do instead of getting up early and heading down? They wanted to sleep and go to the beach. Yes, and so we uh we stayed at the beach, yeah. And to their defense, it was Wednesday and we had to leave Thursday out of the burbo and head start heading north.

SPEAKER_04 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

So that night we went down to San Diego, and I have decided that I want to go back to San Diego with just Denise.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

And just get a Virgo a La Jolla, maybe, uh-huh. And just spend some time down there. And uh so um she's been there. Denise has been there. She went there for work several years ago, and so she is a little more familiar with the area. But um again, the weather was fantastic. Um, catching a baseball game there.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

There is no weather in San Diego, that's the issue. Which is no weather.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

And I couldn't figure out why at first, like, because you know, I knew it's it's gorgeous, it's always gorgeous. But you look at the map and you're like, it's far enough south, it should be hot. But I didn't realize what the Pacific Ocean does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the cool wind blowing in. Just keeps it all temperate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Now it's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

You know, you head 50 miles inland. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

And it's desert. It's miserable.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Well, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

I well, of course you do. I we're about to get to your area, bud. Okay. All right. So, okay, so we get up on Thursday morning, we head up, we stop at a place called um Slovane. Okay, yeah. Uh-huh. And um, which is a Norwegian village. Something like that, yeah. Something like that. And um uh bakeries. It was good.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Otherwise, I'm not super familiar. I mean, I know the area.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Basically, imagine um uh slightly less Tchotchky Gatlinburg, but in California.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Right? It it's that same type of thing. It's like a lot of local people. Yeah. Well, locals, like we're from California and we've just come over for the day, type of thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, but you know, it was fine. But and it was a stop on the way up to Pismo.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

And then that's where we uh we we walked on Pismo, we got, you know, got into our hotel, we walked on Pismo Beach, walked out on the pier, took the picture of the shark and sent it to you.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

Uh-huh. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

My understanding is I sent you into a at least over an hour spiral of no one's going in the water.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Yeah, it was. I I mean, I don't prefer this. Is why I was in when you're talking about Madison and Robbie wanting to play volleyball. First off, if I'm going to the beach, I would prefer to look at the beach from the hotel pool. That's like my idea. That's fair. But if we're actually gonna go out on the beach, then I mean, I want the umbrella and the and the chair and the drink. Okay. That's all I'm interested in. See, I'm a walk the beach guy. That's that's I want to sit there.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

I don't want to sit, I don't I don't even want to play in the water.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

Yeah. I just want to walk up and down. But my kids really want to be in the water. Of course they do. They're kids. And they like to boogie board and it and I used to. I used to surf. Yeah. Yeah. But you sent me that picture and I was like, yeah, we're not getting in the water. Because I already have seen so many uh videos of Pizmo with shark, like like overhead drone footage. Yeah. Because there's all the surfers that hang out next to the um pier there. Yeah. And then drone footage will will look at the silhouette of sharks underneath them. Yeah. And uh and then you sent me the picture of the guy who caught the shark, but then Krista did some research and found out that it's a re called a reef shark, and they are completely like they're there's never been any their mouths. They're mouths are real, they're very small.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Yeah, I mean, it might be able to get your arm.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Yeah. But but there's there's not been any um recorded instance of a reef shark, I guess, ever attacking a human at all.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

You're not you're not their type.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Yeah, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Yeah, it's like all right, you can get in the water.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

So I liked Pismo. I didn't like all the sand fleas a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So of the three beaches, uh Laguna, uh, probably Pismo would be second. Yeah. If you could get rid of the sand fleas. Yeah. Um, Venice, like if you're gonna, if you're gonna walk from like if you want to actually walk all the way down to the water, pack a lunch.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Like, I didn't realize how huge Southern California beaches are deep. That was massive. It is like walking across a desert. Yeah. My favorite beach is Newport Beach. Um, and it is very similar to that, where it's like, it is, it is such a trek. And imagine, I mean, we would go down there with little kids. So when you're going little kids, you look like a Sherpa. I've got like stuff all on my back, and I'm dragging a uh easy up and a wagon or whatever, you know, like three miles in or whatever. Nobody is going to the bathroom, nobody, you know, going to the water. Into the water. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, nobody's going back for food.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah. Yeah. I got a great business plan. What's that? Get get some of those golf carts with the big dune buggy wheels on them and chauffeur people. Yeah, it's a good idea, actually. Yeah. That's not a bad idea. California, you can pay for that.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Yeah, just work on tips or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Yeah, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Yep. All right. So then uh we got up in the morning and we headed to perhaps my favorite stop.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Mm-hmm, Salinas.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

What'd you think of Salinas? I loved it. Yeah? I loved Salinas. Salinas is just a a little bit smaller uh Sacramento. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a town. Yeah. Uh something to it. Yeah, and I said that tongue in cheek to try to provoke you a little bit. Uh-huh. But um, no, I thought it was really cool. We went to the Steinbeck Museum. Cool. And at the Steinbeck Museum, you got a little map while we were there of Salinas, which basically is the street. Yeah. And um, but it had on there marked the buildings that uh Steinbeck referenced in East of Eden. Okay. When the mother who opened the House of Ill Repute um would come into town for her day for her weekly visit. And um those buildings were there. So I got to walk and be like, there it is. There it is. Yeah. That was really cool. That is cool. And then we ate at Steinbeck's childhood home. Okay. And um, and it is it's a nonprofit completely run by volunteers. Cool. And um, I had a very good chicken salad sandwich. Wonderful. Yeah, it was excellent on sourdough bread.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

And then uh if Jessup is listening to this episode, he is pulling his hair out right now. Uh did you go? Did you guys hang out in Monterey? I bought three books, by the way, too.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

You didn't ask, but I did. I bought three more books. Um, and I've just about um almost that right there is the last of the three. Okay. So I'm almost done with them. Did you guys hang out in Monterey at all? No, no. Really? It would have taken uh by the time it would have added an hour to our driving. Plus, yeah, plus if we were gonna go, I wanted to get out, like, and yeah go to Canary Row and do all of that. And Robbie was ready to get over to um Walnut Creek. Okay, where we were staying. Yeah. And so we went up to Walnut Creek.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

It was great. We stayed uh This is incredible. You did a California tour and you went to Salinas and not Monterey. You might be the first person to ever go to Salinas and not Monterey. What can I say? That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Well, I'll just have to go back.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

So um, and also full disclosure 22 years ago, I drove through Monterey and uh Carmel.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Oh, I'm glad that you're telling the truth. Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

It's important for people to know. I feel like people right now are listening to this podcast going, but has he ever been? That's right. Yeah. Because they give a shit. Right. So anyway, uh they're gonna they're gonna put your uh this is gonna be the number one episode of all time.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

They're gonna put your testimony through an AI filter to try to determine the right.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

So I'm trying to I'm trying to wrap this up because I do want to get to Sacramento. So uh did that. Then the next day we went over to Sausalito and the um Mir Woods. Sure. Kids got to see the redwoods and we did all that. And then um we went back to San Francisco, catch a baseball game.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

East Bay is, I mean, for Northern California, East Bay, uh, yes, San Francisco proper is probably the most expensive because of a lot of Silicon Valley. Well, Silicon Valley is not San Francisco proper, but you know what I mean. Yeah, but East Bay is where it's at. Like that is where everyone wants to be. Gorgeous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

So um, yeah, so we went into San Francisco, we saw a baseball game, loved it. We walked down to Giradelli and um spent over $100 on four ice cream sunshades.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

Yeah, sounds right. Right. What? Yeah. Um and then and called it Giradelli. Uh did you call it Giradelli to people's face?

SPEAKER_02 43:49

It's pretty I don't think I called it to anybody's face. Why are you supposed to pronounce it?

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Giradeli, but Giradeli? Do you know, do you?

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Now I feel like the person that's just giving our time.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

I feel like the person that says gyro instead of Euro. That's right. That's exactly that's exactly what you did. How do you I hope you said it Giridelli? It's Ghirardelli. It's Gira. I mean, that's what everyone has always said. It's chocolate. I hope you also called it Frisco. No. When you uh when you were talking about going into San Francisco, we went into Frisco.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

I would have said San Francisco. No. I'm not I I don't really abbreviate. Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. No. Okay. So then uh we um we went back and we went to uh we saw Alcatraz. We didn't do a tour or did you just like Yeah. Well we did the audio tour.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

You have to get you have to get a ticket, you take the ferry out. I'm saying like you went out to Alcatraz. That's cool. I have never done it. Are you kidding me? I've never done it.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

It's like the person who lives in New York has never actually been out of the Statue of Liberty.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

That's exactly what it is. And I, you know, it's just one of those things. I just it was always. I think you would like it. I would love it. Yeah. It was my second time. Yeah. I mean, I it is it's to my eternal shame. I have talked to other people who've done it. There are so many things that you know so much about, and there's so much that I have to educate you on.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

I know. There's most things you have to do. I think what we really need to turn this podcast into is every episode, me explaining another Steinbeck novel to you. That's a real this is good. Actually, this would be really good. Oh yeah, no one would listen. No one's looking to listen to this one. They're done. That's good whatever I wanted.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

So everybody's logged out. You did Alcatraz. What was the other touristy thing you did? You said Pier 39. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That's good. Sea lions, not seals.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Whatever. And I ate an entire bowl of the clam chowder with the sourdough bread. Good. Not only did I eat the clam chowder, I ate the entire loaf of bread. That's what you're intended to. You should.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

And then I walked around with You're making my mouth water right now. I walked around bloated with guilt. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

You don't have guilt, man. Just drink through the guilt. It was bad. Just kidding. Um, and so there was a couple nights that I drank through the guilt. Yeah, it's kidding.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Yeah, I found the we found a microbrewery. Sourdough, sourdough clam chowder bowl is just It's fantastic. You have if you go to San Francisco and you're on Pure 39, you have that's I mean, like, what are you doing if you don't eat that?

SPEAKER_02 46:14

So then uh we got up the next day and we and because we weren't on the beach anymore, we were able to convince the kids to speak to the city.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

We have no beach in Northern California.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

No. And so we went to um Sacramento.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

And we went to Old Town. It's the only place to go in Sacramento. And I thought to myself, why in the hell would anybody live here? Yeah. And then I I I looked at the map and I studied the history a little bit, and I was like, now I see. What happened was people came through the Donner Pass.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

They're like, you're asking why it would have sprung up.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Yeah. And I was like, 'cause of the river. I was like, oh, you came out of the mountains from the east. Yeah. You got into a valley. There's a big river. Yeah. And you're like, this is a great place to settle. Yeah, it's the river. We didn't eat each other. It's the delta.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

It's the delta. That's what did it. Yeah. Because you've got you actually have access to the Pacific. Well, from Sacramento.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

I didn't realize that until I read about. Yeah. I am the one that goes into these places and tries to learn the history while I'm there. Yeah. And I found out about the canal, the shipping canal. And I was like, wow, that takes you all the way out. Yeah. That's amazing. Plus, I did know the history of the railroads. Sure. Right. And so I was like, it makes sense. But that's why the railroads came there, came through there was because it was it made sense to me. Yeah. And and it also made sense if you know the history, why it was the capital. Right? Sure. Sure. So anyway, uh, I enjoyed Old Town. Robbie got bored enough that we actually played putt-putt in an old hotel in the basement.

unknown 47:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Underground putt-putt in Old Town. Okay. And um it was the only place in San Francisco where I actually started getting hot. It was in Old Town Sacramento.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

That's not in San San Francisco. What do you said it's the only place in San Francisco? I'm sorry, the only place in California that I actually began to feel hot. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Was in Sacramento, which is probably how I was like, I don't care for Sacramento.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

Yeah. Um It's better too than where I'm actually from Placer County if you go east. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Because um Sacramento gets closer to the but you start heading out towards the mountains that way.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Yeah. Yeah. You when you go east, do you you start we we lived in the foothills, well, just outside of the foothills. Okay. But um Yeah, because you get the delta breeze in Sacramento, and so it cools it down in the so it gets gets almost as hot. During the game, it got cool. But then it cools down at night. In Plaster County does not cool down at night. So it's like 108, 109 degrees during the day, and then it's like 99, 100 degrees at night. But you don't have the humidity. I never minded it. I'm like a lizard. Here though, it's like on top of that, you're also underwater. I know. Krista doesn't mind the humidity, though. We've been talking about this a lot. She does not mind it at all. I hate it.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

We walked off the plane and it hit us, and I was like, this. It really does feel like you're walking through fog. I was ready to put the house up for sale. I'm like, I'm out, I gotta get out of Tennessee. And go where? Laguna Beach? No, I can't afford Laguna Beach.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

I mean Virginia Beach. Okay. I'm ready. Yeah, but that's the humidity's not gonna be better there. Yeah, it is. Oh, is it? I think when I think of Virginia, I think of worse humidity than here. But I maybe I don't know. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

It's not doesn't have the same as a Pacific. Yeah. The Atlantic doesn't. But you're furna far enough up north that the water's gonna stay relatively cold. Okay. So yeah. So anyway, um So Sacramento and Snow Town, and that's it. Yep. We had one more day. We went up to um uh Sonoma. Okay. I loved it. I toured the barracks of Sonoma. Yeah, I toured the mission, and um, yes, Krista reminded me there are wineries up there. And um, I did not do the tasting because I was our driver. Yeah, but um Denise and Madison had a few tastings and they enjoyed it. Yep. And uh and at the first place, the guy was really, really friendly. Uh-huh. And we were telling him all about the trip and stuff like that. And and I was like, yeah, and yesterday we were out in uh um out in Sacramento. He's like, you know what I love about Sacramento? I was like, what? He's like, how close it is to Tahoe.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

Yeah. Yeah. That's everyone who comes from where we are in Sacramento, the Sacramento greater Sacramento area, Placer County or whatever. Yeah, everyone says what's great about it is that you're two hours from everything. That's what everyone like you're two hours from from San Francisco, San Francisco or the Tahoe or whatever. But yeah. So it was it was fun. You didn't visit, did you visit or see Sutter's Fort when you're in Sacramento? No. That is like as far as I'm concerned, that's the best historical place. I know I didn't think about that ahead of time. It's Sutter is the it was involved in discovering the um the gold that started the 49ers.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

To be honest, though, I'm not sure I can convince my traveling companions to go visit a do a tour and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Yeah. I, when Reed was in, he must have been in fourth grade or fifth grade. They had um his school had a um like a big field trip day, and they prepared for it. We all had to prepare for it. It was a it was an all-day thing at Sutter's Fort, and it was very, it was very fun. So they all dressed up like it's the fort is still there and preserved and everything. So their field trip was not just to go do a tour, their field trip was all day they were going to be the people in Sutter's Fort doing different things. And so if you were gonna be one of the chaperones, you had to go ahead of time, like a day or two ahead of time, and train in the thing that you were in your station. And so my station was the um the cowboys, which they were um Mexicans, um, because it was still part of Mexico at that point. And um, I can't remember what they were called Vol uh starts with a V. Vajos. Something like this or something like that. Yeah, that makes me sad that I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

It's not caballeros, because that's what people think, but that's not it. No, it's starts with a V. It doesn't matter. Yeah, there's like an L in there and an H. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, um Yeah, and I think the L's are a yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

Yeah, I think it's Vallejos. Yeah, I'll have to look that up. But anyway, I taught the kids how to lasso. Cool. And I wore a poncho and uh Reed played Sutter. He was Sutter.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

So I've got a picture of him in like a cowboy hat and uh thing, and they all rode up on a on a wagon to get there, and then he had to give a speech. Like it wasn't a speech, it was like a already though, the thespian. Yeah, I know. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Anyway, yeah. So I was in California long enough that the things that when I first got there I found like really sort of off-putting.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

Yeah. Began to feel normal. Started to feel normal, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Yeah. And um, and I was like, you know, if I lived in California, it would it this would be normal.

SPEAKER_05 53:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

You know, and so did you get a sense for how different the different parts are, or does it feel like one kind of cohesive thing?

SPEAKER_02 53:25

No, it it's complete like the the co like the coast, San Francisco, and that whole area is way different than Sacramento. And both of those are way different than LA. Mm-hmm. And the Central Coast is a whole different thing. Yep, yeah. You've got the I think it was called, they sent us a magazine called Slow Cal.

SPEAKER_03 53:46

Yeah, Slow is despo.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Yeah, and it was uh that had a completely different, more residential feel to it, more local feel than when we were, you know, further south.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Central Coast is very sleepy in in contrast.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Like in when we're in Salinas, yeah, it's surprising to me how much it feels like you could have just picked some of that up and dropped it right in Texas. Yes, and it would feel just the same.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

There are huge swaths of California that feel very Texas or feel Midwestern.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

And the people, I would imagine that the people in those areas, if you plucked them and had them wake up the next day in Texas or whatever, they wouldn't notice. Like the people would just feel the same. The the accents might be a little bit different. Yeah. But I think that the concerns, I think that the the the thinking about things, the positions about things, the opinions about things, it would feel very familiar and very sane to them. And so um it was something I thought about, and I think this is worth talking about, and maybe this is a really long because now we're getting close to the end of this. And if you're still listening, I apologize. Next week we'll get back to the other thing. But um This has been amazing. But uh, yeah, it's your home, it's your home state. But um here's what I think is that uh there are certain things that we think are ridiculous, right? But it's all based on our uh exposure and and perspective. And so there are some things that we're like, oh my gosh, those Californians or those New Yorkers or whatever. I can't believe that they're worried about this, or I can't believe that they're worried about that, or I can't believe that this is their thing. And then you come to Tennessee or wherever, and you sit down and you listen to the conversations and you watch the things, and we're still just as dramatic, we're still just as overconcerned about or over involved in just different things. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 55:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

You know, and um, and maybe, maybe if we realize that, it will give us a little bit more patience and compassion for people that are different than us, that we perceive as different than us. Um, because if I had grown up where you grow up, I would probably consider myself a conservative. I'd probably be just a lot very much like you. Sure. Right? Yeah. Um we've joked about that even. Yeah. You are, you know, you're a you're a California conservative and I'm a Tennessee uh liberal and we're basically pretty close. We're pretty close, yeah, right. Yeah. But but if we had taken you and put you in uh let's just say you grew up in Laguna, you may be a completely different person. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

Right. Um I think that's definitely true. Because I think everything has a uh everything has an effect.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

Right. I I still think though, to some degree, we there would certain be certain behavioral patterns that would be the same. Maybe. It's just the things that would get you riled up or the things that you were concerned about or the things that you were compassionate about would be different. Yeah. Um so anyway, I think that the idea of that that seems less real isn't fair. What seems less real? A lot of times people like a lot okay, going back to like the plastic surgery and all that kind of stuff, right? For people to say, Oh, they're so superficial. Californians are so superficial. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Um that's not fair. It it's that that's very important. And it's very but part of whatever is going on. There are things that happen here that I look at people and I'm like, oh come on. You are so superficial. Sure. But to them, it's really important. Yeah. And so I think that um I think that I think that we're not being fair when we completely just discount someone else and their concerns and say that that's shallow or superficial or sure.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

Yeah, people's people have reasons for their concerns. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, and I think that travel, I think it's a really good uh um uh example of how of why I think travel is great. And it doesn't mean that you have to travel in order to be a good person, but I think that you know, I don't care about what you do. I don't mean you, but like just in general, the you do whatever you want. For me and for our family, we want to be exposed to different ways of living and different people and different expectations and different concerns and and all that kind of stuff. I I I want it for my kids and I want it for myself, and and it's cool. In the United States, you can there's so many different cultures, you know, and there's so it's so vast that you can you can do it without even leaving the country.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

You need to read the book Travels with Charlie.

SPEAKER_03 58:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

All right. All right. Uh it's it was written by one of our uh all-time great uh American American heroes. Uh one last story, because I just think I think it's great. So we were at the we're at the Sacramento game uh in that tiny little because it's a minor league. It is. It's a minor league, but it's even small for a minor league stadium. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

I don't know what level they are. I don't know either. Right? But like it's the river cats for anybody who cares.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

The travel the trout uh the the Nashville Sounds stadium looked like a major league stadium.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

That is a function of the fact that yes, Nashville and Sacramento are both capital cities. Nashville is a way more developed city than Sacramento, except for traffic patterns. That's the only thing. It's horrible here. Nashville traffic is terrible, but all of the, like, as far as I'm concerned, all the buildings, all the like the um things like the stadium and stuff, it's it's so much nicer in Nashville than it is. And Sacramento is just a I don't know, maybe it's because it's older or whatever, but all of them are like that. Like the zoo is much nicer in Nashville. The all these kind of like public, big infrastructure projects. I don't know. It feels like they're bigger and nicer in Nashville.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

So we're at the stadium, and this is a story about how I think if you're willing to just take a little bit of time, not a whole lot, not even a whole lot of effort, yeah. There's always something that you can find that will connect you to another person. Sure. I mean, maybe not always, but generally speaking. So we're at the game, right? We we've stopped at the Pro Shop. We all have our uh Oakland or Sacramento or Vegas or whatever they are now, uh-huh. Athletics, hats on. Right. Right. And um, and then a few innings in, this uh this woman and her husband come walking in and they sit down next to uh right next to Robbie, who's at the end there, and and they're all decked out in their Dodger stuff. Uh-huh. And um, and she is uh obviously been um uh she was at the pre-party. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. So she's she's getting after it. She's three sheets to the wind, and she is she sits down and she's immediately a chatterbox.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

Right. And her husband keeps going, like, are you okay? You all right? And she's just having a great time and she's chatting up my kids. Yeah. And my kids are loving it, right? They're just having a great time with her. And um, and she starts talking about how she's from, she's originally from LA. Uh-huh. But her and her husband have relocated up there. She's a she's a realtor and all that stuff. But the here's the thing everyone there is dressed in blue because they're playing the Dodgers. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And it was like, we were so frustrated with that. We're like, I cannot believe, come on, people, you know? Yeah. And and and then you're the reason that we had to pay $150 a seat because of all of these LA people. Uh-huh. Right. Yeah. And then all of a sudden she starts going off. And she's like, I cannot believe all of these fake LA Dodger fans. Uh-huh. And she starts like yelling at them. And she's like, Where were you 10 years ago when we sucked? Uh-huh. And she's like, You all should be ashamed. And then she's like telling my kids, they suck. They shouldn't be allowed here. Look at all those brand new autonomy jerseys. Where were they? And she's like, I guarantee that none of them are real Dodger fans. We're real Dodger fans. And I was like, immediately my kids bonded with her. Sure, yeah. Because that's like one of the things that we can't stand. And so there is always people that you can bond with, even if it's over a shared disdain for others. Especially if they've been pregaming. All right. Well, it was fun. I'm glad to talk to you again. Good.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

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